Black Book Values to Negotiate Used Car Price
- fooit [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Mar 9, 2005
- 1967 posts
- 120 upvotes
- Vaughan
Nov 25th, 2008 4:36 pm
How do you use Black book value shopping for a used car?
Let's just say a used car's Canadian Black book value is $15000.
So how much would it be reasonable to pay for such a car at a used car dealership? $16k? $17k?
Thanks in advance!
- #2
- first timer
- Newbie
- Nov 15, 2008
- 3 posts
Nov 25th, 2008 5:02 pm
I wish I could help, but I'm going to ask a similar question.
Why are used car prices on VMR Canada so much more different than black book?
Is VMR reliable? If so, where should I start negotiating on a used car using VMR pricing - on the wholesale amount, retail amount or somewhere in between?
Thanks!
- #3
- hilroy
- Newbie
- Mar 23, 2004
- 45 posts
Nov 25th, 2008 5:03 pm
the black book is what the dealer would of paid for it, so 500 over should do it, convince the dealer that 500 over what they paid is better that zero on a sale. That is how I purchase my extra warranty from the dealer.
- #4
- fooit [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Mar 9, 2005
- 1967 posts
- 120 upvotes
- Vaughan
Nov 25th, 2008 5:15 pm
Ok, I see, let's add some variables - Canadian Black book usually gives you min and max values, so for the sake of example let's take a car with $14000 - $16000 range.
To what value would you add $500?
- #5
- Karbaum
- Deal Addict
-
- Aug 17, 2008
- 1525 posts
- 21 upvotes
- Toronto
Nov 25th, 2008 5:38 pm
You'd be hard pressed to find a dealer that would sell $1000.00 over blackbook. 2k would be average, but it depends on the price point as well. But anything is worth a try.
- #6
- fooit [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Mar 9, 2005
- 1967 posts
- 120 upvotes
- Vaughan
Nov 25th, 2008 5:51 pm
Karbaum wrote: ↑You'd be hard pressed to find a dealer that would sell $1000.00 over blackbook. 2k would be average, but it depends on the price point as well. But anything is worth a try.
So average Black book price + 2k would be a reasonable offer in any used car dealership?
- #7
- Tonyshibo
- Newbie
- Jun 21, 2006
- 67 posts
Nov 25th, 2008 6:08 pm
I'm looking at a car that is from a private seller that has a blackbook value between $4000-$6200 and he is asking $10,000 for the vehicle. I was thinking that an offer of $8000 would be reasonable (around 8500 tax in). Would that be a fair offer for the car considering it is already almost $2000 more than the highest blackbook value or is it too high? The car is a 2000 Lexus es300 with 170,000km btw. Thanks in advance.
- #8
- realestateguy
- Member
- Jun 27, 2005
- 398 posts
- 30 upvotes
- Barrie
Nov 25th, 2008 6:40 pm
In my experience dealers will give you the bottom figure for your trade in. Not sure how much on top of this wpold be realistic but $2000 doesn't seem too realistic. Looking at used cars tomorrow for my son and not looking forward to it. 
- #9
- hilroy
- Newbie
- Mar 23, 2004
- 45 posts
Nov 25th, 2008 7:54 pm
fooit wrote: ↑Ok, I see, let's add some variables - Canadian Black book usually gives you min and max values, so for the sake of example let's take a car with $14000 - $16000 range.
To what value would you add $500?
Assuming 14K is in somewhat rough shape, (find some defects such as tires, swirl marks,brakes,rims), I would try around 15K , and take it from there. In todays market they may take it, if not they will have to keep paying their LOC on that vehicle.
- #10
- dash riprock
- Member
- Oct 28, 2008
- 265 posts
- 15 upvotes
- Courtenay
Nov 25th, 2008 9:52 pm
hilroy wrote: ↑Assuming 14K is in somewhat rough shape, (find some defects such as tires, swirl marks,brakes,rims), I would try around 15K , and take it from there. In todays market they may take it, if not they will have to keep paying their LOC on that vehicle.
Dealers will, after purchasing the vehicle for $14,000, put it through their shop. Friends who own a dealership tell me they average a $750 repair bill. So now you have vehicle with a cost of $14,750. Add onto that a minimum $2,000 profit.
Dealers get alot of their used inventory from private auctions. They then have the cost of auction fees, warranty,and transportation to add to the cost.
No dealer will sell a good, not aged, vehicle for $500 over cost.
- #11
- BartBandy
- Deal Addict
- Sep 2, 2002
- 2115 posts
- 41 upvotes
Nov 25th, 2008 9:59 pm
Supply and demand. If it has sat around, you may get a taker, but be prepared for a lot of salesmanship. If he's confident he can sell it to someone else this week for more than you're offering, he won't do it.
- #12
- fooit [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Mar 9, 2005
- 1967 posts
- 120 upvotes
- Vaughan
Nov 25th, 2008 11:22 pm
dash riprock wrote: ↑Dealers will, after purchasing the vehicle for $14,000, put it through their shop. Friends who own a dealership tell me they average a $750 repair bill. So now you have vehicle with a cost of $14,750. Add onto that a minimum $2,000 profit.
Dealers get alot of their used inventory from private auctions. They then have the cost of auction fees, warranty,and transportation to add to the cost.
No dealer will sell a good, not aged, vehicle for $500 over cost.
According to your math average Black book value + 2K should work.
- #13
- zivan56
- Sr. Member
- Dec 6, 2007
- 810 posts
- 22 upvotes
Nov 26th, 2008 12:55 am
I can tell you that the so called "Black Book" is not very reflective of a cars real value. For example, my 03 Pilot said $12,000 max...but I got $14,000 for it on a new car purchase from Lexus (they don't lower the price of new cars).
- #14
- dash riprock
- Member
- Oct 28, 2008
- 265 posts
- 15 upvotes
- Courtenay
Nov 26th, 2008 10:56 am
zivan56 wrote: ↑I can tell you that the so called "Black Book" is not very reflective of a cars real value. For example, my 03 Pilot said $12,000 max...but I got $14,000 for it on a new car purchase from Lexus (they don't lower the price of new cars).
A lot of dealers refer to the auction summary of recent sale prices as a more accurate statement of market value
- #15
- fooit [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Mar 9, 2005
- 1967 posts
- 120 upvotes
- Vaughan
Nov 26th, 2008 12:11 pm
dash riprock wrote: ↑A lot of dealers refer to the auction summary of recent sale prices as a more accurate statement of market value
The problem with this is that most of us don't have access to those statements while Black book is easily accessible.
- #16
- dash riprock
- Member
- Oct 28, 2008
- 265 posts
- 15 upvotes
- Courtenay
Nov 26th, 2008 4:18 pm
fooit wrote: ↑The problem with this is that most of us don't have access to those statements while Black book is easily accessible.
When has the dealer-customer relationship ever been fair?
- #17
- 007003s
- Newbie
- Jan 13, 2008
- 23 posts
- Denver
Nov 26th, 2008 5:59 pm
zivan56 wrote: ↑I can tell you that the so called "Black Book" is not very reflective of a cars real value. For example, my 03 Pilot said $12,000 max...but I got $14,000 for it on a new car purchase from Lexus (they don't lower the price of new cars).
In effect, they just did lower the price of the new car by bumping up the price of your trade-in to close the deal. There is no way to draw any conclusion about your trade-in's real value or the accuracy of the Black Book from your transaction. If you had held out longer and they eventually offered you $15,000 for your Pilot would that have meant the Pilot went up in value?
- #18
- zivan56
- Sr. Member
- Dec 6, 2007
- 810 posts
- 22 upvotes
Nov 26th, 2008 7:56 pm
^^ Well, they said anything after that would have to come out of the cost of the new car, which wasn't happening. I could have easily got $15000 for it anywhere else if I was buying a used car (in fact, I did when I was looking for a used BMW) and even got $16000 at another major dealer for another used trade in. However, no non-big 3 dealer would go above $14000 for a new car. If the Pilot wasn't from the GVRD it would have been 11000 max.
The major fault of the black book is that it doesn't take the region into consideration (like they do in the US).
Don't forget they lose out on tax too...and you gain that from trading in.
- #19
- jed
- Deal Addict
-
- Oct 12, 2001
- 3621 posts
- 96 upvotes
Nov 27th, 2008 2:46 pm
US does state in their disclaimer that there are regional differences in values. And its true. Black Book is a GUIDE only - not a bible on pricing.
We had lots of cars where we appraised it more than book on trade because we knew the car on the used lot would sell for more retail. Its not always about the dealer making more, as a dealer, used is where the money can be, so you want the trade-in to make the money.
As a dealer you still have to take it in right, and they'll try to get it for a bit less, but if you walk away from the deal because of a low trade in value, what will the dealer make?
Its a fine line of giving enough for the trade to get the deal, while having it come in at the right price so as to be able to move the trade after it comes out of the shop.
I highly recommend all the naysayers to go work in the business for a year at a decent dealership to be clear on how the whole process works.
So what can you as the consumer do to ensure you are getting proper value - definitely look at Black Book, but also, go through the ads in the newspaper, watch autotrader, buy'n'sell, etc to get a good idea of what cars/trucks are selling for in your area.
Then, once you've figured out that value, you have to decide if you are going to deal retail or wholesale with the dealer. He won't care which because it the difference price he gets that determines his values/profits. Just don't go in expecting retail price on the trade, and wholesale on the new.
And remember you can always sell your trade yourself to maximize your money.
What the H E double hockey sticks have I done now?
- #20
- fantom
- Deal Addict
-
- Jan 19, 2005
- 1539 posts
- 57 upvotes
Dec 1st, 2008 8:31 pm
fooit wrote: ↑The problem with this is that most of us don't have access to those statements while Black book is easily accessible.
I was just gonna ask - where do you look up these prices/where can I find this "black book" pricing?
Black Book Values to Negotiate Used Car Price
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